"Our brand is dying, what should we do?"

"Alfalfa" (alfalfa-romeo) 07/30/2018 at 11:23 • Filed to: Harley Davidson

0

48

“L et’s take an 80s scooter and make it into an adventure bike.”

E90M3 > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 11:31

10

“Our brand is dying, what should we do?”

The same thing everyone else is doing:

SUVs and Crossovers

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 11:32

1

Mercedes Streeter > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 11:35

1

That looks pretty cool...too bad it’ll be priced so high that the people this bike will target will continue to go to other brands.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 11:38

1

I...kinda want it

Spanfeller is a twat > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 11:38

0

Damn it... I like it. 

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 11:41

11

They probably made more money off their branded F150s than they did off motorcycles during those years. 

crowmolly > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 11:44

3

Well, it’s their brand and their customer base.

Just look at the Goodguys shows and hot rod culture. Sadly as the people age they become less and less active in their hobby, and younger people aren’t joining the ranks.

Sure, there are exceptions, but as a whole they are not appealing to newcomers.

Azrek > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 11:52

0

I’d kinda like to see a chart or graph showing that Harley’s best selling cycle was for the past 10 years.
Then see if they have been self aware or not of the trend analysis.
Some companies have been very self aware and others...like Ford, maybe too self aware? 

So Shiney. So Chrome! So Frunky > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 12:06

0

I don’t hate it but how heavy is it? I mean I can’t imagine trying to extract a HD product stuck in the mud. It probably needs a wench 

Wacko > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 12:21

6

This is the only way they stay relevant with their client base.

CobraJoe > crowmolly 07/30/2018 at 12:22

1

That’s a shame about hot rod culture.

It started out as a “Lets slap this thing together and race it!” spirit. All about the joy of building something interesting and driving it hard.

But then it grew into shows where shiny and exotic looking rods got all the attention, and then people started throwing money at the looks instead of the driving... and it all went downhill.

BobintheMtns > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 12:44

0

Nothing like betting your future on an 800 lb ‘adventure bike” (that looks like it’ll barely fit through the trees)...

The Ghost of Oppo > E90M3 07/30/2018 at 12:47

0

Yeah but people are actually buying those.

ihm96 > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 13:17

0

I’m not a huge bike nerd but that thing looks kinda cool

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 13:19

2

I googled Harley under the new category to see some more of this and this caught my eye

“What we are doing isn’t working, so let’s keep doing that”

Decay buys too many beaters > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 13:43

1

I’m glad to see them trying. To be successful, this will have to have similar engine performance to the Polaris/Indian 1200, while being priced similar to the Africa Twin. I really do want them to succeed here, more bikes are better for everybody, and I’d love someone to make an american bike I can actually get excited about. I do fear it might be too little too late though*.

*see Cadillac  

E90M3 > The Ghost of Oppo 07/30/2018 at 13:44

0

Yeah I know, I was inferring thatbif they made a crossover they'd sell like nothing else. 

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 13:44

0

That’s so squared off and blocky my kid could have made it out of Legos.

RacinBob > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 13:52

2

The Cylons called and they want their headlight back!

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > So Shiney. So Chrome! So Frunky 07/30/2018 at 13:58

1

It probably needs a wench

I don’t know if this was intentional but it hilarious either way

So Shiney. So Chrome! So Frunky > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/30/2018 at 14:02

0

Winch ......wench.....as long as it pulls you out of the mud.

Hammerdown > Decay buys too many beaters 07/30/2018 at 14:40

1

My assumption is that the ADV bike will compete with the R1200GSA and mayyybe the Africa Twin.  A Indian 1200 is probably a bit too rowdy for an ADV bike.  They did say they plan to use both 900cc (or thereabouts, I’m paraphrasing) and a 1250cc.  So one to go against the Africa Twin and one to go after the GS maybe?  They have two years to science all that out.  

Hammerdown > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/30/2018 at 14:42

0

I think that was meant to mean they’re not abandoning their current lineup for these new models. They’re not selling nearly as many big touring bikes as they used to, but they still have a significant percentage of that business. They’ll not be supplementing it with these new models.

Hammerdown > Mercedes Streeter 07/30/2018 at 14:42

1

If you look across Harley’s product line and look at their competitors the difference isn’t as large as you might think.  Especially on the touring side.  Have you seen what they want for a Goldwing lately? 

TheRealBicycleBuck > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 14:43

0

It looks wide enough to hide a V-four. I thought the extra width might be for a belt drive, but the pics show it to be chain drive.

Hammerdown > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 14:49

2

I’ve been looking around the Kinjaverse today waiting to see the comments about this announcement. All the comments for the past 3 years have been:

“Harley needs to create some new bikes with 21st century tech if they want to attract new riders.”

So Harley did just that. However, it doesn’t seem to have appeased people. I’m stoked their trying something different. This will be the first American ADV bike, which is a pretty cool thing.

Also, the Streetfighter they announced looks incredible, but Kinja won’t let me upload photos. 

Alfalfa > Hammerdown 07/30/2018 at 14:56

1

The other three bikes aren't bad at all, maybe a little chubby looking, but not bad. I really like the Custom model myself. But this is the one that made me laugh, so this is the one I'm talking about. It's great they're trying something different, just this one in particular raises questions.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Hammerdown 07/30/2018 at 14:58

1

Yea, but unfortunately words mean things and “doubling down” does not mean “not abandoning” lol

I just found it funny, plus if you are the CEO of a major company (or any company) I think you should be able to say what you mean

Also, they will be supplementing it with these new models...I think you meant, “They’ll not be supplanting it with these new models”

Alfalfa > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/30/2018 at 15:01

0

All 4 bikes they unveiled today are pretty wide, and would all look better with some slimming down in my opinion.

Decay buys too many beaters > Hammerdown 07/30/2018 at 15:01

0

You haven’t ridden a KTM 1200 have you? Way stronger than the I ndian 1200 and see ms to do fine. I’m talking more for their streetfighter, that’s going to share the same motor. Looks great, but looks alone aren’t enough to sell in that market.

Alfalfa > RacinBob 07/30/2018 at 15:02

0

Only once Harley is the only motorcycle available on this Battlestar.

Alfalfa > Decay buys too many beaters 07/30/2018 at 15:03

1

It is honestly a relief to see them trying to expand their lineup.

Alfalfa > Mercedes Streeter 07/30/2018 at 15:06

1

This is a design I would think was  cool if I were browsing Craigslist and found something 30 years old like this for $1500. Not something I would spend 'new bike' money on.

Hammerdown > Decay buys too many beaters 07/30/2018 at 15:19

1

Ahhhh gotcha.  I thought you were talking directly about the ADV bike. Agree with you on the Streetfighter.  That thing needs to be snappy AF. 

Hammerdown > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/30/2018 at 15:21

1

Yea, not sure how I put the word “not” in there.  Case of the Mondays I guess....

Mercedes Streeter > Hammerdown 07/30/2018 at 16:00

1

Huh, would you look at that. I’ve always remembered Harley’s competitors undercutting their prices by a decent bit. Not so much anymore. Shoot, Harley actually has better deals on some models.

Decay buys too many beaters > Hammerdown 07/30/2018 at 16:34

0

I was talking both, thought I read that the 12xxCC motor is shared between both. It seems to work for KTM. They use fundamentally the same 160+hp vtwin in their adventure bikes and the street bikes. 

Hammerdown > Decay buys too many beaters 07/30/2018 at 17:02

1

I like the KTM comparison better than the Indian one.  KTM has shown how you can take that engine and dial it back a bit to make it work in a ADV bike setting. 

Decay buys too many beaters > Hammerdown 07/30/2018 at 17:11

1

To be fair... the Indian/polaris 1200 example is a lower benchmark :p

I didn’t see fit to compare engine performance directly to KTM... I don’t think H arley has it in them to get anywhere near that level of performance. Indian 1200 is somewhere around 105-110HP, while the KTM 1200 is 15 0+ in every application including the ADV segment. I think they are capable of getting 110-120 out of 1200cc if they put on their big boy engineering glasses and concentrate on stuff that’s happened in the last 50 years to make engines perform better.

leicester > Alfalfa 07/30/2018 at 17:34

1

Finally, something uglier than the Diavel....

BobintheMtns > Hammerdown 07/30/2018 at 18:00

0

I hate to admit it, but yeah, the streetfighter looked pretty cool... I see a lot of an MV Agusta brutale in the stance...

But looks like the harley SF still has a belt versus a chain... So guessing the performance won’t be any where near any other ‘streetfighter”.......

BobintheMtns > Decay buys too many beaters 07/30/2018 at 18:02

1

Just posted above- the streetfighter is still using a belt rather than a chain drive. So expect performance to be closer to what you’d expect from a harley, then from what you’d expect from a “streetfighter”....

BobintheMtns > Mercedes Streeter 07/30/2018 at 18:04

1

Yeah.. but not like it’s an “apples to apples” comparison.... Keep in mind harleys are going to have twice the weight and half the horsepower of any similar displacement competitor bike....

Decay buys too many beaters > BobintheMtns 07/30/2018 at 18:13

0

Buell used belts the entire time including in the 150HP rotax era. I don’t think that is going to be the limitation. 

BobintheMtns > Decay buys too many beaters 07/30/2018 at 18:23

1

Except among buyers. I wouldn’t get a sportbike with a belt....

Decay buys too many beaters > BobintheMtns 07/30/2018 at 18:56

0

Why? When done right they work solid and end up with really smooth power delivery. Never tried one in a sporting application , but don’t see why it wouldn’t work.

An intelligent manufacturer could leverage the inherent damping of a belt drive to simplify and lighten the rear end since peak shock loading will be orders of magnitude less than a chain drive... but I doubt that happens here :(

ranwhenparked > Decay buys too many beaters 07/30/2018 at 20:25

1

So, basically Harley just needs to invent a crossover utility bike, and figure out a way to sell a buttload of them to rich Chinese, then everything will be fine. Just like Cadillac. 

pip bip - choose Corrour > Alfalfa 07/31/2018 at 06:20

0

the sooner H-D die, the better. IMO